Submitted by Dann0 on Mon, 2008/09/01 - 10:36.
Hate to be a downer after a great weekend. But it became a bit apparant that some people, not just new JETs, need reminding that we stick out like a sore thumbs/ dogs balls enough as it is, without drawing attention to ourselves with dumbass behaviour when out in big groups.
It must be weird enough for most Japanese to run into a huge group of foreigners in the middle of the night, but when those foreigners are drunk, messed up and all over the show and generally being a pain in the ass to the general public, well, thats worse.
It is unfortunate when I meet and speak to Japanese people, who feel the need to tell me they are surprised at how I have changed thier idea of gaijin, as they proceed to complain about all the other Gaijin who just don't make any effort. What this means, is that previous people who were visitors in Japan, but behaving stupidly, have left lasting impacts on someone who doesn't actually know or even meet that many foreigners if at all. And that stupid behaviour is reflected onto me, leaving it much more difficult to break through stereotypes and prejudices.
I know alot of you are fresh out of college or university, but you are the teacher now, not the student.Student life is over. keg culture has fallen. We can for sure, go out, get drunk, get loud, have a good time. But don't go out of your way to be dicks in public please. If you can't handle your liquor, drink alone at home and get some practice in before you go out on the streets of Japan all tanked up. Anything we do will be remembered as far worse than if a local did it, because we do have something to prove. That we are switched on, cool, pretty young things from across the oceans. Not barking F'ing walrus'.
But look, I know we all get carried away sometimes, and everyone makes mistakes. By all means go out and make those mistakes, but do try to learn from them. Better yet, don't go out and do your best to be an ass....sometimes I hate other gaijin,just for giving me a bad name. And thats coming from someone who likes to get drunk and kcuf tish up.
See you next time when you handle yourself with some self repect.
Just try to think how you look, or how the situation looks from the outside, because appearances really do matter in Japan. If you don't give a toss, then maybe you shouldn't be here. If this doesnt apply to you, sweet. If it does apply to you, no offence, just sort it out. If you know what I mean, you know what I mean.
Keep an eye on your friends and look out for each other. Try have a good time without spoiling it for the locals too, or Im sending a ship full of crackhead alcoholic beergutt socially blind martians to crash your family thanksgiving dinner.
Anyway, this weekend was awesome for the most part, except for when I felt like some people would benefit from a swift kick in the face. 0_o now Im gonna do my best not to bring this subject up again, because it wont be neccessary.
sweet
sweet
Amusing Tablesaw Mishap
...we still get to kick some gaijins in the face though, right?
bandsaw manicure
yeah probably, cos in hindsight its not just the past weekend, but a general, all the time-gaijins-being-dicks- build-up-of-kick-in-the-face-iou's that made me feel like saying something. Plus a few key moments on saturday were kinda embarassing to be gaijin.
Touched By An Anvil
...oooh do elaborate...
To be honest....
... this is why I try to avoid large gaijin crowds and large quanitites of alcohol.
I personally wish teachers and students would take ALTs more seriously, but until the day foreigners start adapting to Japan instead of trying to adapt Japan to them... Japanese employment for foreigners will be terrible.
yeah, we all have our
yeah,
we all have our moments when we cross the line between having fun and being a reject. usually when people roll its anywhere between 3~10 people. a small group of people might have one or two individuals who might get a little too amped and cross the line. but generaly the natural or not so natural "Law of Common Sense" aka LCS usually takes care of buisness
a group of 40+ people i think is a bit much too much for the LCS to manage. Further the number of people who act a fool will increase based on numbers alone. then you have the factor of a few guys trying to be alpha males, other people trying to be the funniest, the coolest, the saddest, i need to get laid the most-est, and the im too cool for everybody-est... all of that combined with too much alcohol does not form "voltron" but forms a disgusting mutant rat-maggot beast.
that being said however, is not a しょうがない issue, this is something that can be helped. like dan said just keep yourself in check or if a person you are tight with starts getting too giddy or whatever. make an effort to keep them cool.
i don't know what exactly happened but i have been to the beer garden thing enough times to have a general idea of what everyone is referring to.
いいんじゃない？
most importantly be safe, have fun, don't get caught doing anything you shouldn't be doing... better yet try not to do anything you shouldn't be doing, and enjoy yourself to the max... even if that means you have to be a bit of a prick sometimes... just don't do it around dan or josh cause they like being the only ones at the party... hehehe
speaking of which we gotta get together soon u kiwi bastards. like real soon.
one
You are correct mister
You are correct mister Llama, just when did acting like a dipshit equal being cool/professional?
Dont worry Josh, no major dramas...but the build up of little things. Im not really that pissed about it. Just felt like giving a heads up to our lovely noobs and in particular to the perpetual noobs who never seem to get it. Especially seeing as I know I'm not the only one who feels this way. Lets pop the gaijin bubble. People just breath thier own blowback inside the gaijin bubble, that cant be good for you. Don't believe your own hype. Being foreign does not give you free reign, infact, it's a lot less. You can get away with honest mistakes, but not blatant asshatisms.
Mind you I wonder if any of this goes any further than the people who already know it? I did find that there were certain new folks that did pick up on it too though, which is reassuring. Because this isnt about telling off the new kids, or particularly about the weekend. Just realizing where the animosity towards foreigners comes from when I see how other people comport themselves. And then there will be people who say...what animosity?....the animosity that doesnt penetrate your gaijin/fart bubble 0_o
not voltron haha
thats awesome man.
Your right bro. Its just sometimes...you know...
by the way
I had a awesome time at the afterparty, and even the beer garden of which I only got 1.5 hours of for full price. It was cool to meet all the new to gunma peeps, and catch up with some old ones too. Was also nice to see private ALTs in with the JETs too. Nothing really bad happened. Was a good night all things considered. But anyway, you know how I feel about dem dirty foreigners.
hehe.....my school is doing the stranger danger drill all around me right now. Why dont they ask me to beat some ass? Or is it me they are after?
gunning for prom queen!
Dan, anyone ever tell you, you talk too much ^_~
You're just gunning for the popularity contest this year!
Leave people to their own demise. If they haven't learned yet, your lecture is just gonna stir the pot!
sorry but
do i look like I care if Im everyones best friend?
I never said jack before so what does it matter if I do now? I think its better out loud than whining in the background while letting people walk over you. heehee guess I wont trade my balls for being in the in crowd with all the cool kids. Popularity, oh my that one tickles.
Although I appreciate the concern over my social suicide, Im doing just fine thanx.
That was last year!
Social suicide was last year! Now you're just the crazy old man that yells at traffic! ^__~
Gunning the Prom Queen
pot? people getting kicked in the face? I'll be there.
PS Speaking of bad gaijin I had a good laugh at the drunk-ass 'end of the night girl' at the Nekolove gig. I hope she caught the train home safely, and didn't have anyone run a train over her.
Yo Phill lets do this. Dan's driving.
Yes!
Pot here!
...is that you kettel?
excuse me?
You seem to be mistaking me for someone who cares about popularity lana..? and when did that become relevant to what we talking about... I think you got the wrong forum. Try not to get personal on here. nOt the place for it.
awesomeness now we need a
awesomeness
now we need a time and date. fridays are always better for me... how does the 12th look?
Now I'm confused....
All this time I thought this was about what happened during the opening band at the after party...
Was there stuff going on during the beer garden that I was just completely unaware of? Everyone I saw there seemed pretty chill. Course I was mostly in small groups during the evening.
And I think Phill is spot on when it comes to folk ignoring the LCS. Once that mob mentality sets it dumb things start happening.
Kudos to Dan for bringing this up. Sadly we can't really just leave people to their own demise because generally speaking it's both foreigners and JET that get blamed for all the bad actions of the few. So, this is something that we all need to be aware of.
And I know this is off topic, but is any one else not like the label "gaijin?" I just hear it tossed around a lot in our group and it kind of grates. Just checking.
******************************************
Brent Thomas
ALT Advisor
tel: 027-226-4618
email: thomas-br(at)pref(dot)gunma(dot)jp
******************************************
The 'G' word
How do we feel about the G word? Well, truth be told I don't find it offensive but considering the meaning behind the word you can look at it one of two ways:
Gaikokujin-person from a foreign country as it literally translates simply calls you what you are. The shortened form Gaijin is a bit more uncouth and is slightly derogatory to the Japanese ear. And although there are no exact translations for certain four letter words in the Japanese language, Gaijin would fall into that category. I think.
Given the Japanese in-group mentality, being foreign is the worst thing a person could be. A Japanese proverb states that being cast out of the group is a punishment worse than death. So in that way, I suppose Gaijin is in fact a reference to us as the lowest denomination of existence.
But considering the history of derogatory words for groups of individuals, and dare I make this parallel, but Us, non-Japanese as the gaikokujin minority in Japan calling ourselves Gaijin is no more or less offensive as people of African American decent calling themselves (use your imagination) or Homosexuals calling themselves (word omitted) in their own in-groups. I am in no way comparing the history of dicrimination to our situation here, nor do I condone labeling, and discrimination is a vile and petty thing the subject another person to. I think we as (G@!j!#) are simply following a predisposed pattern of finding amusement within our own particular group at the exclusion from the majority that is Japanese.
The 'G' word continued
First I just want to say that was really well written. It was a pleasure to read even while I don't necessarily share your view.
You mentioned the parallel of this term and other slurs used by various groups. While there is some parallel, I think there is a societal difference in how the terms are viewed that is key. In the two examples you mentioned, while it has become acceptable to parts of those groups to use slurs as self- referential, the words themselves are still greatly looked down upon by the general public. It is known that such slurs are unacceptable and those who use the terms, whether as self-referencing or as hate-speech, are well aware of the term's history and negative connotations.
However, in the case of "gaijin" it seems possible that many people who regularly use the term might not be aware that it is pejorative. Many non-native speakers of Japanese are unaware of the negativity expressed in the word because of how common it is. Some who are aware say the use the term as a way of “taking it back.” I’ll be honest that argument doesn’t make sense to me no matter what group uses it.
Native Japanese speakers are not always aware that the term can be harmful. In the media it is socially acceptable to use it. But, to be honest, in many cases Japan finds ways to excuse its discrimination towards foreigners. The number one method I have seen of excusing discrimination is to refuse it exists. ‘Gaijin can’t be a discriminatory term because discrimination doesn’t exist in Japan.’ A flood of examples can be found of this type of attitude. The real estate agent who flatly says ‘Many landlords don’t like renting to gaijin.’ The comedy duo who rise in popularity with the intelligence mocking catchphrase “Obei, ka?’ (roughly, ‘What are you, a westerner). These and many others show evidence of ‘acceptable discrimination/racism.’ Letting ‘gaijin’ enter common parlance helps further the myth that there is no discrimination in Japan
In the past I have done some research on the internet (yes, I know) about gaijin. There are many views of its origin and of its usage. But most people can agree that it is the word of choice used by the anti-foreign groups in Japan. It has become a term of hate. As with other words that have started innocently, the nuance of gaijin has changed to the point where it should not be used as an acceptable word referencing a group of people.
*edit* I just read an article saying how gaijin is banned from us on TV. I'm not sure if that is all stations or just a company policy, but hey, it's a step.
******************************************
Brent Thomas
ALT Advisor
tel: 027-226-4618
email: thomas-br(at)pref(dot)gunma(dot)jp
******************************************
Banned word
Yeah, I read a few articles saying the same thing. If not being considered a banned word, it's at least one "better not said". Well, given that the media has a great influence on public opinion, it's a good thing for all those people that don't appreciate being called a gaijin. It will take time, and given the communal mentality of Japanese culture a lot of time, but as long as there isn't a widespread anti-foreigner movement in Japan that gains political momentum like there is in some European countries right now the word should become less derogatory. Or if not less derogatory, at least less prevalent. You know there's just going to be another word that replaces it though.
I can't argue
Hmmm... very interesting. Everything you said is true and I agree with most of it. But let me throw this in sort of too.
I think what Phil was talking about was really true. If you get 40+ people together and add alcohol theres going to be some serious jackassery going on. But that's everyone everywhere I think, in almost any country. If you get 40+ Japanese people together, I'd guess you'd get similar results. I've been out with Japanese people before who almost got into fights at karioke and who got us kicked out of bars, etc.
It's just our sin is that we're gaijin and that, like Dan so elequently pointed out, we stand out like dogs balls. If you're in any group of 40+ people together, and have 4 hours of all you can drink beer and then at least 3 more hours of drinking at an afterparty, it's gonna get a little silly. Anyone, anywhere, anytime. But to point the finger and say, "oh gaijin, look what you've done!" Isn't fair I think.
But you're right, we are judged on it. But it's like when Steven Adler got kicked out of Guns N Roses cause he was using drugs. They were all using drugs. I think we do the same dumb shit everyone else does, but if someone pre-determines they don't want to like you, that's what thier excuse will be.
I don't know, like I said, for the most part what you and Phil were saying is true.
And that's my 2 cents. Good thread!
one last time
There has not been any full scale disaster or incident, everything was pretty cool. Not trying to point fingers and if people read carefully I said its not just about new people or even JETs. I think maybe just personally, one or two things may have been a catalyst for me wanting to bring it up. Saturday was good, I repeat saturday was good. But sometimes people need to pull thier head in. Me included. Maybe I didnt drink enough and I could see a little clearer.
Yeah Brent, the Gaijin word is going around alot, and getting grating, perhaps it is more comforting when you hear it from your own mouth rather than the locals, but it did seem to be bandied about like a middle finger to japan recently.
So perhaps there are just a few people that are really playing that card of being foreign and having a sense of entitlement to be obnoxious, because "hey im foreign, anything I do is great and they love me. And its not my country or culture so what do I care?"
Either way, I really dont think we are doing too bad, like Brigg and Phill said, these things happen, and nothing major did. Its when people are being dicks out of beligerance, and thinking that it has no consequence that it bugs me, and when you start to see it consistently, all the time wondering why Japanese people look at you sideways. .
By the way what happened during the first band Brent?
Must have blinked.
Also Im curious about the End of the night girl reference there joshy lad. oh yeah,and why am I driving? If im driving its a one way trip, and your sleeping under the car, tied to the tow bar.. and as for 12th.....not sure might be booked that whole weekend, might not...bit up in the air still. oh woops, this aint facebook 0_o~
Great night.
It was alright meeting up with all of you again. Great meeting you too Dan. I'm a new JET, and I have to say I saw how bad it got when we all walked around town, and then into Family Mart >< I dont remember much, but I'm sure I contributed to the problem too. I do my best to set a good reputation for foreigners and especially Canadians, but as someone earlier mentioned, that mob mentality... Once that and alcohol get tossed into the same bag, things do get out of hand. Hopefully the next get together wont have such a bad aftertaste. If the guy next to me starts to get out of hand, I'll give him a nudge and set things straight.
CANADA 4 LIFE. PEACE OUT.
- Jeevy S.
Opening Band
They could be described as less than good (or at least that is how I would describe them.) But a lot of people still had a good time and were making the most of it. The the band decided that they were not content to have the stage and started coming into the audience. Some of the guys in the audience didn't seem to appreciate being told to move so that the lame frontman could pretend he was a member of The Who. Birds were flipped.
Honestly I didn't think it was that bad, but I could see how some would feel that it was too much. Those things happen at rock and roll shows. Main reason I even mentioned it is that was the most "extreme" thing I saw in the evening. But I also left fairly shortly the beer garden to go to the after party and missed the Family Mart trip entirely.
I don't want to come across as coming down on anyone because I do think that the "good partyers" are far in the majority. That being said all of us, myself included, need to be aware of where we are and how quickly a stigma can be attached even by the actions of a minority of the minority.
But in the end it was still a good night on the town. Maybe we'll have a clear night sometime and we can do it without the constant threat of rain.
******************************************
Brent Thomas
ALT Advisor
tel: 027-226-4618
email: thomas-br(at)pref(dot)gunma(dot)jp
******************************************
I see
said the blind drunk man. Your right Brent, there was nothing extreme, and what you mentioned I didn't even see at all. What Jeevy mentioned was after everything, and also was no real biggie, but added to various little things that tend to accumulate, and it becomes aparant that not everyone quite gets how we appear to the Japanese people around us.
SO yeah, I don't want to scold anyone, just a reminder. and like Jeevy said, give the guy next to you a nudge every now and then, because we all forget sometimes. If we are in our own country, and not working for a city office, it doesn't really matter how we behave, because it's all our own problem, but in the job we all have now, we do have at least a responsibility to our employers, and to each other, to act like adults, who are teachers, and working for a government organisation, and supposed ambassadores for our respective countries.
As for the little things, it isn't even one night, or just new people, most new people are great, and seem to have thier heads on thier shoulders to me. The main things that bug me, are only things that I know bug Japanese people, and would probably bug me at home, and those things have to do with common courtesy, common sense (LCS), being considerate to others around you, and not having a good time at the expense of others. (unless it involves laughing at slapstick situations, Im all for laughing when someone hurts themselves in a comic manner).
Hey was cool hanging with you too Jeevy, sorry you didn't get that girls number haha. Don't worry bro, you didn't contribute to anything. At Family mart wasn't even all that bad, but it is one small example where we weren't giving the best impression. Whatever anyway, this isn't about coming down on new arrivals, you guys are sweet, don't worry. Just here and there, ayone one of us could do with a kick in the face as mentioned earlier. I was noticing stuff before you guys even arrived. Thats why I didn't want to draw attention to anyone or anything in particular, just want to give a heads up, I guess im not the most subtle of people ^_^ and it came off a bit heavy. PLus I have a bit of time on my hands.
Heres an idea, any good stories anyone knows where something went down and it made you a bit embarrassed to be a foreigner in Japan? Funnier the better, or serious too. NO quoting newspaper reports, personal experiences only, and no mentioning names. Could give everyone the examples we need to be careful of. Im sure I've gone wrong plenty of times too, because it aint exactly easy coming to Japan without screwing up a little.
actually I have the first one.
Drank alot at my first beer garden, and karaoke after that. Jumped on the first train home in the morning. My Japanese friend had to get off before me, so she said ' your stop is next, don't fall asleep!!'
Woke up about an hour later still on the train with lots of Japanese people on thier way to school or work all staring at me. I think I fell off the seat when the train stopped at one station, so I quickly disembarked and enquired where I was and, confirmed, I had no idea where I was.A 20 minute train ride took me 3 hours to get home in the end. Kind of thing that can just happen, but still felt pretty lame. I did try very hard not to fall asleep. oh wait, I mean, it was this friend of mine....
Anyway, could have been worse.
this dude i know went to an
this dude i know went to an enkai had a good time. the last thing he remembered was walking home. what seemed like a few minutes later came to in the back seat of a van. the van ended up being a cop van. he cracked a few corny jokes and told him where he lived, they took him home, gave him a hug, and told him to be more careful in the future.
moral of the story
learn corny japanese jokes
The next day...
The next day, afer the whole beer gardens/club fleez thing, I hopped on my mountain bike and did what it was built to do... I scaled Harunasan to go see Harunako. LOL. It was awesome being the only one going up the mountain on a bike, but it was kinda embarassing when the slope got to be a little too steep, forcing me to get off and push the bike myself... And having all those people on motorbikes or cars go by, staring at me... LOL...
It was well worth the climb though, the lake was beautiful. I'd left the apartment at 1:30ish and sadly, arrived at 5 ish, so most of the lake's locals and stores were done for the day. I biked around the roads there for a while, got something to eat, and asked some people if there was a bus which might possible take me and my bike back to Takasaki >< Uh oh... Nope. Damn Japanese buses dont have that cradle thingy in front that local transit back in Toronto Ontario Canada have... So yeah, I fastened all 3 of my bike's headlights onto it, tightened my helmet, and blasted down the mountain on the bike. It was an awesome ride all the way down. I'd totally love to do that again. Kinda wierd though, when I noticed I was going faster than the cars ><. Anyhoo, before i go climbing another mountain, I'm going to get my brake pads replaced. Coming down the mountain did a number on them. Poor things have endured Byakui Kannon Mountain AAAND Haruna Mountain. To quote monkey majik, "I need a change". LOL. Hahahha, I just remembered, I even ran into a fellow JET who lives in Haruna-machi, who was apparently doing his grocery shopping when i returned back to ground level at around 6 pm. His reaction when i told him what i was doing in Haruna-machi, "YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING!!!!".
LOL.
Hmmm, I've heard Gunmajet does some ice fishing up there in the winter, but you know what? The mountain looks really nice now... I wonder... Would anyone be interested in a group mountain climb? Perhaps we could do it over the course of a weekend. That way, we could climb up on the Takasaki city side, and then come down the other side, stay the night at a hotel, then come back the next day (or if you live in Shibukawa or Ikaho, you can stay there :P)
bikes and mozzies
sounds like my first magical mamachari adventure. I had a homestay for a few days, and then moved into my apartment. But I left my map at thier place. So i managed to get lost riding my bike back to thier house to get the map >.< in the dark, narrow rice paddy-lined roads, lots of traffic, big hungry mosquitos, sweaty foreigner crashing into lamppost as cars run him off the road. It took me quite a while. stopped for directions several times, and each time they gave me really bad directions. Got even more lost. Another 20 minute trip that took me 3 hours.
I really hope you didnt attempt to get up that mountain on a mamachari...thats would require some head examination.
0_o
Wow
Wow, I'm not even there yet due to visa complications and I already feel like I'm going to be stepping on egg shells. Oh well, I'm not the crazy drunk asshat as so eloquently put by Dann0, so I guess I shouldn't worry that much.
Also, just on the subject of the word Gaijin, when I was in Kyoto doing an exchange a few years back I heard the words Gaijin-san and Gaijin-sama a lot in reference to me. It seems that a lot of Japanese people try to make an effort to markedly separate the negative connotation from the word through the use of honouraries. Just my two cents. Wondering if anyone had noticed something similar.
egg shells
Hey man, you don't have any need to feel that way, sorry if what I wrote makes it seem so though. You just have to use common sense. Being drunk and happy and enjoying it is normal. Being a public nuisance or obnoxious is another story...law of common sense thats all.
And as far as attaching san or sama to the end of the gaijin word, that is not softening the blow to me when I hear it. I find it to be an exceedingly patronising and smug way to refer to someone. They know full well that there are other more appropriate ways to refer to a person...especially when you are a customer. ie. Okyakusama.
If it is just a random person, they have the opportunity to find out your name and use that with san or sama, or they could just say anata, which is perfectly acceptable for when someone deosn't know your name yet. To me, its just as bad as saying Mr.Outsider/ Mr. Foreigner. Somehow Mr doesnt sweeten the fact that they found it neccessary to refer to something which is already painfullly obvious to everyone including onseself. Maybe, just maybe, they think they are being super polite and elevating you to some sort of status, or its a sign that the person in question chooses to put us all in the same "gaijin" bag, making us not worth the effort of following the usual Japanese etiquette, so might as well tag a san or sama onto the inside joke that isn't an inside joke anymore and be done with it. After all, those foreigners can't possibly understand the nuances of the Japanese language because they are after all, just "gaijin", not a guest, customer, friend, or member of the same society, but an "outsider" which is what it means.
sorry again, but I have had this conversation before, and what you mentioned is a bit of a pet hate of mine and a few other people. I have rarely heard it though anyway, and that is because most Japanese people would not be so rude to your face, and think they can get away with it.
Last time the G word got thrown at me was pretty annoying, I asked one girl in a group what the time was in perfectly normal Japanese, and she turned to her friends and said, "hey a gaijin asked what the time is!", not someone, not hey whats the time, apparantly it was relevant that I was an outsider, when all I wanted was the time of day. But anyway, they were stupid, so I walked away and asked someone else, who reacted like I was anyone else, and told me what the time was. SO, when we bitch about stuff like this, don't feel like its the end of the world. We're just saying is all. As you were...
more gaijin
Oh don't worry, I get the pet peeve about the word gaijin. The word has practically been a curse for hundreds of years in Japanese society. Someone mentioned earlier that gaijin was just a shortened form of gaikokujin, though from my understanding from all the classes I took the word gaikokujin came into the language far after gaijin as a less harsh replacement for the word. Sort of a side note, but anyways. I don't really mind when people call me a gaijin to be honest. I'm well aware that Japan is a highly xenophobic place. I'm not going to get worked up over an attitude that quite nearly everyone is at least thinking about, if not overtly obvious about. When I was in Kyoto I was disallowed entry into a store, and had to force my way onto a bus past a crazy old man just because I was "gaijin". I just didn't worry about it. Okay, well, I worried about the crazy old man because he got off the bus after me and followed me for a little while. Kind of a funny story actually, heh.
Also, calling someone "you" is also pretty rude in Japanese culture from my understanding though, so I don't know if that would be much better in their eyes. I guess you wouldn't be being marked clearly as an outsider, so take what you can get I suppose. Oh well, as you said, all of us stand out and we just have to deal with it.
anata
you are right that saying anata is conbsidered rude, but that is if you have an alternative. It is fine if you really dont know the persons name, but is to be used with caution. In fact I have heard anatasama before, I think thats much better than the other alternative that seems to be fallen back on. The word Gaijin however was never a shortened version of gaikokujin though, look at the kanji and you see the picture. Outside and person, no mistaking that, outside country person however, clearly just means foreigner. Anyway, sticks and stones may break my bones blah blah blah
The white girl
Yo. About the gaijin vs. gaikokujin stuff - it's all interesting and I also do prefer gaikokujin. But I'd like to throw it out there that most older people (I'd say 60 on) simply don't know that gaijin is an offensive term. I used to work at a school where no one really cared I was there and most of them used the word "gaikokujin" but there was an older woman there who would always say "gaijin" and she was amazing. She loved me, gave me sweets, we talked about our personal lives, etc. Like a real friend - and I know she wasn't trying to disrespect me by saying gaijin. I think the best thing we can do is when appropriate - let people know thoughts about the word and sometimes just suck it up.
In the States, I always hung out with a bunch of East Africans and i'd go to parties where they called me "the white girl." Yeah, sometimes it did get annoying but for the most part I would laugh it off cause I knew they weren't being hateful. There was just a white girl there and usually there isn't. Overall, just the idea of thinking someone is less than you due to race, nationality, sexual orientation, or whatever is stupid as hell, so I guess I just observe what people say and leave it that.It's kind of like getting flipped off. Dude, it's just a finger.... word.
Welcome to Japan Gaijins
...there is no racial bigotry here. We do not look down on niggers, kykes, wops, greasers, abba-dabbas, chinks, gooks, beaners, bjorks, gypseys, chicos, goon ninjas, honkeys, dune koons, sand niggers, knuckle draggers, jiggas, kiwis, lemonheads, macs, micks, paddys, patels, queers, pakis, crackers, maggots, punjabs, bull heads, gibblys, sambos, skippy poofters, and soap dodgers.
Here you are all equally worthless.
Hey now,
You think that's funny? What are you some kind of joker? A Sergeant Joker perhaps? (That is a great scene by the way.)
But on the serious side, I do agree with Annie. Not all users of the word gaijin mean it in a derogatory way and I don't think we should fly off the handle at everyone who uses it. But that shouldn't make it an okay term to use.
Somewhere there is a balance between not letting the word bother us and letting others know it is an offensive term. I'm not sure I know where the balance lies.
******************************************
Brent Thomas
ALT Advisor
tel: 027-226-4618
email: thomas-br(at)pref(dot)gunma(dot)jp
******************************************
I thought he was just being
I thought he was just being harsh, but now that I know it's a scene from something it sounds like something Monty Python would do... What's it from?
I agree with the balance being difficult to determine though. I often take the route of just making it as clear as I possibly can, though many people consider that to be off putting. In a society that values subtlety I'm painfully aware that I'm going to have to change my approach or I'm just going to reinforce the view. Maybe we could all have t-shirts made up or something and wander around wearing them. 外人じゃないよ。-insert nationality here-人だなあ。 I know, lame idea, but it's something.
i dunno. 外人 doesn't
i dunno. 外人 doesn't offend me at all. 外国人 also doesn't bother me. i have heard Japanese people say that 外人 is kind of offencive and i have heard others say it is not. the fact of the matter here is that we are outsiders.
there is no point in trying to deny what we are... as much as some of us would like to, we can never truly fit in japan like a foreigner would fit in NY or whatever major world city.
there are kids who are mixed and they have been born and raised in japan and they are still treated slightly different. its not bad or good it just is.
so when when people are called the 外人 it's a truth. next time you go out walking in the street just take a look around and note that you can't read every sign around you, go to a book store and pick up a random book and note that you can't read it like you would English. The way we dress, the foods we choose to eat, even the way we look at Japanese make us 外人. we are outsiders, it's a fact. the fact the we get so wound up about the word itself makes us 外人 because we really don't get what it means to say it. it also might tell us something about ourselves.
i have no qualms with foreigners in my country. i actually love meeting people from places far away and who speak different languages. to me to be a foreigner/outsider is kind of cool. maybe it's our own take on the word and the mindset that goes along with it that makes it hard to be labeled as one... just a thought.
shitsurei
Respect to you Phill,
I like that.
Some time ago a Japanese friend complimented me by saying she wasn't considering me as a foreigner, because I was speaking her language and I was accustomed to the Japanese culture. Well, i got pissed at her like many others would have when they get called gaijin.
I am proud of being a gaijin in Japan, and I wouldn't trade it ever, because that's what I am. I could live here for ages, and I would still feel an “outsider”, even if only for the smallest thing, like not putting ketchup on my spaghetti.
My culture is in many ways different from the Japanese one, and even if I eventually can understand the reason behind some behaviors I couldn’t grasp at first, and adapt, it doesn’t mean I always agree with that.
I don't want to get misunderstood, I love Japan and Japanese people (or at least some of them), but I enjoy being Italian in Japan, and there’s absolutely no way I would be still here if I was born and raised Japanese (in which case I would probably be in Italy, talking very politely to the guy who is mugging me), because the ”social programming” I'd receive would effect my ability to enjoy this beautiful nation. Japan is cool when I look at it through my gaijin eyes, but, in the end, it’s just a matter of perspective.
That being said, I don’t believe that being an happy foreigner in Japan necessarily means getting wasted and going around bush-jumping in the middle of the night, while smashing your neighbor’s garden dwarves just because you know he’s not gonna complain. I think of it more like being able to talk to the phone without bowing, or saying to your boss that you are not going to do overtime work during the golden week without getting the weird feeling that you’re bringing Japan on the edge of the collapse with your laziness. In Tokyo I met an Italian girl, she was trying so hard to be Japanese, that actually said 大変失礼いたしました to a door after bumping into it.
Yo,
Dario
"In Tokyo I met an Italian
"In Tokyo I met an Italian girl, she was trying so hard to be Japanese, that actually said 大変失礼いたしました to a door after bumping into it."
you have to be kidding man.
that's freaking amazing!
Stay outside and live within.
Not to forget, 1.Gunma is a conservative, 'tradional values' prefecture. It doesn't represent the views of the nation. I have experienced raw discrimination in japan but a lot less of it outside this prefecture. 2. Slang words and discrimination vary from country to country. In NZ there are racial slang words and none of them are intended to be offensive. They are adopted as part of our multicultural society. Yank, Pom and Occa are thrown around in everyday language and are usually dispensed with a smile and a wink.
3. Being made to feel like an outsider is common all over the world. Im sure if I moved to Pigsfuck Arkansas I'd get a few strange looks at the local diner when I ordered a decaf soy latte. Several years ago in England a 7 year old NZ boy was violently attacked by a 30 year old local man for wearing the wrong football shirt.
I guess the central point is, perhaps we hold Japan a little too high, maybe we seperate THEM from us as some kind of utopian society free of all the problems at home. Our little 'Japan is a better place than home' bubble was probably a little too misguided, ill-informed and ethnocentric to begin with. For most of us this is a lifestyle change or an adventure in a foreign land. Stupid people breed more and statistacally we are getting 'dumber', so this 'us and them' view of the world isn't going to vanish from the world, probably ever. So perhaps its just easier to appreciate the better things here and don't trip over this outsider thing too much. A night with frinds (local and foreign) at a nomihodai joint is enough to put a smile on my face.
There ain't no nomihodai in NZ!
Suffering from delusions?
Hey guys...first post and my first two cents
Think of some of the real minority groups that exist in the world. Aborigines in Australia (ironic considering its their fucken country), women in Saudi Arabia, any cambodian who lived under the Khmer Rouge, the poor and disenfranchised of the world, buddhists in Myanmar and Tibet, Hispanics in America (since when did southern california stop being mexican land? Oh yeah when the white supremisists took over.), the list goes on.
Does the label gaijin seem so bad now? If someone calls u a tosser do you go crying to mummy. Or maybe mummy forgot to do your laundry last night. Cry me a river!
The time we spend complaining about what isnt right could be well spent embracing what is. Have the courage to change the things you cannot accept and accept the things you cannot change and the wisdom to know the difference.
If you go to a club and dont like the DJ do you atand around complaining about it or go somewhere else? Living in another country may seem difficult at times but the reality is it was never created to make you feel comfortable. It was created to make the people from that place feel comfortable. Make the best of your opportunities to see and live in another country. If its not for you move on.
This means looking at the bigger picture and accepting what truly is for it was never anything else.
The dictionary defines delusion as a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact.
Food for thought.
Dave in the Bash
Occa dave
Nice post. I agree with what you said. The other night some occa asshole through a glass of beer in my face. And I thought 'I can't change the world, but I can sure as hell rearrange this motherfucker'. So I went to put the hurt on him. Then i realized 'hey, he's Australian he can't help his beer throwing antics'. His family tree is a stump and he's descandant from rapists and murders. And inside every Australian is a New Zealander trying to get out. So I let him be and one day we will laugh together about it.
ouch!
like i said...suffering from delusions...how bout we have a bevvy and whinge about being gaijins...
delusional
Considering all the good and the perks that comes from being a gaijin in Japan, sometimes the bad doesn't seem so bad. I don't know if I'd call people who are offended by being called a gaijin delusional though. As I said, it can be an offensive term, but I know what I am and if someone wants to call me a gaijin, so be it.
The hills are alive with the sound of gaijin
What a great rant. We came from drunk-ass gaijins to don't call me gaijin to why you hate me cos im foreign and then back to drunk ass gaijin again. 'and that brings us back to doe a deer a female deer, ray a drop of golden sun...'